| Boswell |
Let’s get started. Could you maybe tell me a little bit about your own background and some of your activities growing up, leading us into a discussion of the ERA?
|
| Dickerson |
I grew up in Salem, Oregon, which, when I was a child, was a town of about 30,000 people. It was both the capital and a farming community. I lived a pretty idyllic life there. All the kids were involved in working in the fields during the summertime; it didn’t matter what your income was. Then as we got older, we got to work in the canneries. I had a very strong mom and dad, and they worked together in a small business that they owned. It was a department store in Salem. So I saw my mom as an equal partner with my dad, which was a great role model. They were great role models for me.
I remember having thoughts about what girls could do and what boys could do, and just being appalled, even when I was a little girl, at some of the “you can’t do this” messages that we would get. My first recollection of one of them was when I was a freshman in high school, and I had wanted to go ahead and help serve Mass. I grew up Catholic, and I wanted to take on the same roles that the altar boys had. There were no altar girls. So I questioned our freshman teacher, who was a priest and religious teacher, about this. He explained that it was because of religious teaching that girls should be silent, and that was according to St. Paul. That just sort of sent me over the edge, as you can imagine, right on over the edge. And I guess I haven’t looked back since in terms of thinking that there are some injustices in the world that need to be addressed. One of the basic ones is how women are treated because of their gender.
I went on to college and remember reading Betty Friedan’s The Feminine Mystique. I can remember it to this day very clearly. I was in a train station in Germany because I was doing the junior year abroad program. I was waiting to catch a train back to Italy, and picked up a copy of The Feminine Mystiqueand read the whole thing there. And just all the bells went off when I read it. It really connected with what I had been feeling—really helped me understand some of these emotions I’d been feeling about how women and girls were treated, and how that need not be the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
What was it that she called it—the problem with no name?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So you identified specifically with some of the roles that she had laid out that had essentially idealized women and yet limited their options?
|
| Dickerson |
Right. Right. She very well articulated the Freudian concepts that had filtered in through our society. After reading that, I had no great love for Freud. [laughter]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In terms of your own academic interests and career interests, did some of these ideas lead you in a certain direction or not?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, I’d have to think about that. My original degree was in journalism, and I wanted to be a reporter. I got my degree in 1969, and at that point it was really, really hard. Actually, it was 1968, but I came back to the States in 1969 and started looking for work. It was very hard to find a job in journalism, per se, if you were a woman. You could write on the society page. I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to be an investigative reporter. So I knocked my head against the wall, but I had to get a job. I was going to be putting my husband through college.
I ended up taking a job in what was then called the Department of Public Assistance. Eventually I went to graduate school, where again I connected with the issues of women’s rights and got heavily involved in Hawaii, because that’s where I was in school, in the women’s consciousness-raising movement. We had a bookstore there that had women’s books and periodicals, and I did a lot of reading there. So I eventually got a master’s in social work and incorporated my beliefs about women in the work I did.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Tell me a little bit more about the women’s consciousness-raising movement.
|
| Dickerson |
Well, it was very exciting for me. In Hawaii, it was led by some women who had been academics, at least in Honolulu. It was a very informal, very open kind of movement. You could come and go as you wished, and just go into the bookstore area and sit down and read for as long as you liked. There were informal groups that you could participate in, discussion groups back and forth, to try to learn from one another.
I also remember that when I was in Hawaii, I did a study of the various schools of social work throughout the United States to find out, in this very women-dominated field, how many had male deans of the school of social work. Most of them did. I found that pretty interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
That is. What about the Hawaii program? Was the administration of it male-dominated as well?
|
| Dickerson |
You know, that’s interesting, I have a block on that. I don’t remember.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Did you find, though, that in graduate school they were very open, within that course of study, to whatever direction that you wanted to go, whether it was women’s issues or family issues?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, it was fairly directed study, but we were welcome to do research on a variety of topics. I just happened to choose a feminist-related topic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Were there particular women in that field in Hawaii who served as mentors? Or was it more within the women’s consciousness-raising group where you found those people?
|
| Dickerson |
It was in the women’s consciousness-raising group. Most of my mentors at the school of social work were male.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In terms of women’s issues, was the idea of “women’s liberation” widely accepted? I read that for some people, the idea of women’s liberation was a turn-off as opposed, perhaps, to women’s consciousness raising. Did you see them in your mind as the same or not?
|
| Dickerson |
I saw them as the same, basically. Then the opposition started to use the term “women’s libber,” which was a negative connotation. So when they did that, the term got a little muddled. We backed away, I think, from that kind of terminology and just used other words.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Was it a fairly good-sized group of women who were interested in feminist issues on the Hawaii campus?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. It was fairly large.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Hawaii has such a mixture of people of various cultural and ethnic backgrounds. I wondered whether or not women of color, for example, were active in some of these feminist movements there at that time.
|
| Dickerson |
They were.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
They were. I just was curious because it’s an unusual situation. So once you finished your graduate work at Hawaii, then tell me a little bit about what you decided to do.
|
| Dickerson |
Well, then I came back to Seattle, and I took a job for the state in the juvenile justice system and eventually got involved with NOW. It was through attending meetings, NOW meetings, that I learned about the ERA coalition and thought, “What a great way to take some of the skills I’ve developed in community organizing and put them into practice.”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I want you to tell me a little bit about the NOW at that point in time. But first, let me go back. You chose Seattle as your base. Had your family moved here or how did that work—the move from Salem to Seattle?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, my husband had grown up in Tacoma, and I had always wanted to live in Seattle from the time I was a little kid, for some reason. I’d seen it and thought it was fabulous. He wanted to attend school at the UW [University of Washington], so that’s why we chose Seattle. We both agreed Seattle was going to be our place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So then you went to graduate school and then came back to Seattle? Is that right?
|
| Dickerson |
Right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So tell me a little bit about the NOW organization in Seattle when you first joined. Tell me a little bit about how it was organized and what it offered as opposed to any other women’s organizations that might have been available.
|
| Dickerson |
Well, you’re asking me to think back a long ways. I’ll just sort of give you these glimpses of memory. It seemed to be a fairly welcoming group, dedicated to improving the rights of women. Men could belong, too, although it was totally led by women. The meetings were held at Keystone Congregational Church in Wallingford, which was pretty close to where I lived, so it was pretty convenient to come. I remember often the meetings were just packed. People were very excited about this movement towards women’s rights. That’s basically what I remember.
I also was looking for an opportunity to really get heavily involved. I thought if I got into an organization like the ERA Coalition, which was relatively new, I’d have more of a chance because the leadership roles had been pretty well filled in NOW. I was a new kid on the block. So I felt that my talents could be really utilized to a fuller extent in something like the ERA Coalition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Did NOW have a fairly broad range of women of various ages at that time?
|
| Dickerson |
You know, I don’t recall. I seem to recall that it was dominated by women who were perhaps twenty years older than me, but I think there were a lot of young women who had gotten involved in NOW, too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I was curious about the spectrum of women’s organizations at that time, from the AAUW or the League of Women’s Voters to NOW to Radical Women. I wondered if that spectrum was based on age or whether it just represented a span of different views, or just different ways of coming at the same issue.
|
| Dickerson |
I think it’s a span of different things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So how did you get introduced to NOW?
|
| Dickerson |
I don’t recall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Was it something from Hawaii, or not?
|
| Dickerson |
Oh, we had NOW in Hawaii, but I don’t recall how I got introduced here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So when you first started attending, did you pretty much go directly into the ERA Coalition?
|
| Dickerson |
I probably attended NOW meetings for a year before getting involved in the ERA Coalition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So because you’d been away in Hawaii, you had been fairly far removed from the early efforts to get the Washington State ERA amendment passed, and then to work on getting our legislature to ratify the federal amendment?
|
| Dickerson |
Right. I wasn’t involved at all. I was in Hawaii at that time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So in terms of the need for and the rationale for the Washington ERA Coalition when you got involved, could you tell me a little bit more about that?
|
| Dickerson |
Sure. There was a need to assist the states, other states, in passage of the ERA and to help raise money for the effort and raise awareness on the effort. Also, we had to raise awareness about the state’s own ERA here in Washington. We developed the coalition to do all of that and were pretty successful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Tell me a little bit about putting together that kind of a coalition. What kinds of people did you try to recruit, first of all?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, I would like to say that a number of women created the ERA Coalition before I joined. So I want to give them lots of credit for doing that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Were there particular ones?
|
| Dickerson |
Sure. People like Rita Shaw and Erin King were very heavily involved from the beginning. So when I came in, I joined the outreach committee, and then became chair of the outreach committee. We looked for a variety of women’s organizations, from those who were connected with professions to people who were interested in women’s issues like childcare, women’s health, et cetera, to join the coalition, either as formal endorsers or as contributors to our efforts. We wanted people who would attend our rallies, and people who would contribute financially to help fill our coffers for the other states.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So did you find, in general, that most of those types of organizations were pretty receptive?
|
| Dickerson |
We did. We were pretty targeted in our approach. To the best of my recollection, since it was a long time ago, we got a pretty good reception. We weren’t going to organizations that we thought would turn us down. We weren’t approaching the John Birch Society or evangelical associations that might have some trouble with the issue of equal rights at that time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So what was the time span? You got started when?
|
| Dickerson |
I believe I started getting involved in late 1976, and then got much more involved in 1977. I helped as a co-coordinator in the late 1970s, first with Erin King, and then I was co-coordinator with Joan Sandler after that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So at that time, the ERA, in terms of the ratification movement, had begun to lose a little bit of momentum. Was that a key issue in forming the coalition? Or did you see potential problems within Washington?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, we wanted to make sure that the ERA would not be rescinded in Washington, our state ERA, so that was a defensive move. But that wasn’t the primary reason that the coalition was there. We knew we were very close to ratification. So we didn’t necessarily view it as losing steam so much as we just needed to have this final push. “We know it’s going to be tough.” We needed to push as hard as we could to get as many people behind us. We had a lot of energy in Washington around the ERA, and a rally and march downtown with 2500 people, which is pretty great. We did major fundraisers. Tom Robbins came and spoke at the Seattle Center for us. We had Gloria Steinem who came for a large Women’s Day. We were doing a number of things, and didn’t really feel that it was an issue, necessarily, of losing steam. It was just keeping that momentum going.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In keeping that momentum going, you were mentioning some of the rallies. Was it just to raise enthusiasm? For example, Tom Robbins comes. What does he talk about? How does he add to what the ERA Coalition was?
|
| Dickerson |
I have no idea what he said. [laughter] Can you blame me? How do I know what he talked about? I assume it had something to do with the ERA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
But even today, if you get people who come in—whether it’s the Sean Penns of today or whomever—who are supportive of a cause, it does bring people out.
|
| Dickerson |
It does. Right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
And what about Gloria Steinem? Was she, in person or as a speaker, the dynamic leader she seemed?
|
| Dickerson |
She was very dynamic. As a young woman, I was just thrilled to sit right next to her! I was up on the stage with her at the event, and I just was amazed at what a wonderful speaker she was and how motivational she was. She was very much a motivational speaker. I think that she certainly gave the ERA effort a good shot at that time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Was there an umbrella or national ERA coalition that you interacted with, or that offered speakers or advice or whatever to a state group like the Washington ERA Coalition?
|
| Dickerson |
You know, I know there was a national coalition. I don’t recall what it was called. It may have been that NOW took on that role, but we did interact with the other states. Maybe Rita Shaw could tell you more about that, but definitely we were in touch with the other states. We had to figure out which states we were going to help with funding. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Do you remember how that process worked or how you decided what states to help?
|
| Dickerson |
Not at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So was it more directed toward states where there was the possibility of–
|
| Dickerson |
Ratification. Sure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So it was ratification rather than rescission?
|
| Dickerson |
Right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In terms of the relationship with NOW, did NOW provide an encouraging framework? I mean, were most of the key people NOW people or was it a major priority of NOW?
|
| Dickerson |
It was a major priority of NOW. They were very encouraging. A lot of the energy in the coalition came from people who had been affiliated with NOW, or continued to be affiliated with NOW, but it also came from other organizations. For example, Erin King came from the Washington State Nurses Association. There was an organization formed called Housewives for the ERA, and they brought a lot of energy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I was reading some articles, and there were a couple of interesting ones about a group of Mormon women who formed an organization for the ERA as well, and actually had a few protests. Some of them were even arrested while they were protesting in front of the new Mormon temple that was built over in Bellevue. I don’t know if they were really active in any broader organizations or not.
|
| Dickerson |
I don’t recall them being active. There may have been a few members. Pam Roach might know more about that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
If there were housewives groups, were there other religious women who did support the ERA, even though, perhaps, in terms of their faith, it may not have been a priority for the church itself?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, I’m sure that there were individuals who came from religious organizations, and that was their religious background, who supported the ERA and who were part of the ERA Coalition. But we didn’t identify by the church that we attended.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
You mentioned that a man could be involved with NOW. Did you have men involved with the Washington ERA Coalition?
|
| Dickerson |
We had a few, but not very many. It was pretty much a women-led organization. I recall that certainly on the marches, we’d have men marching with us, but for the most part, it was a women-dominated organization dealing with women’s rights. It makes a lot of sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Yes, sure. Were there certain tactics that you found to be particularly useful or effective? You had some big rallies. You mentioned marches. Was it the public displays that seemed to garner that momentum that you wanted to keep? Or were there workshops or other kinds of activities?
|
| Dickerson |
I think it was a real combination approach. We did learn from the anti-war movement. A lot of us had been involved in the anti-war movement during the Vietnam days, so we learned from the rallies that were held because of that, as well as the teach-ins and the educational aspects. It was a combined approach that was most effective.
Some people like the ability to have quiet conversations, sit down and chat and learn that way. Others are more action-oriented. We tried to appeal to people who had a variety of styles of learning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I was really interested in looking at a few of the materials that the ERA Coalition published and seeing some of the sponsors who are listed. There are a few men on those lists, but there are also just an interesting range of different types of groups and individuals. Number one on this particular list is Active Mexicanos, and there seem to be some other Hispanic groups. I don’t see any of the city’s Black groups on this particular list. That doesn’t mean they weren’t there. I wondered about drawing in minority women, and whether, first of all, that was a priority, and secondly, how that evolved over time.
|
| Dickerson |
My recollection is that we definitely wanted to have minority women involved. We did not want the coalition to appear to be white-women-only organization. So we actively did outreach, as I recall, to women of color. There were several women of color, many women of color involved. The details—that’s a long time ago. [laughs]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I was just curious because there were some parallel movements at the same time for Native American rights, for example, and obviously the Black Power or Black rights movement. I wonder if you found that in dealing with some of these people, there was a real pull for where to put your energy in terms of feminist issues versus ethnic, racial or cultural issues.
|
| Dickerson |
You mean for them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
For them, yes, and whether that made it more difficult for the coalition.
|
| Dickerson |
I don’t recall that coming up as an issue. It might have, for various groups.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Another name that was on this list was Governor Dixy Lee Ray, who was an interesting woman. Was she supportive? Do you remember her having any role at all?
|
| Dickerson |
I know that Governor Dixy Lee Ray really believed in women’s rights strongly. She was a very complex woman and had some very conservative views, for example, on the environment. She was hard to categorize. [laughs] She was a very dynamic woman. When you got in the same room with her, you could feel that dynamism. She was strong on women’s rights, and that’s primarily what I recall about her. I don’t think that she got that involved in the ERA movement when I was involved in it. She may have been involved in it previously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
But she did go as far as to at least endorse the Washington ERA Coalition.
|
| Dickerson |
Absolutely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
That’s interesting. We talked a little bit earlier, perhaps off the tape, about the role of labor. In terms of both endorsements and also, later, involvement as an organization, tell me a little bit about some of the labor groups at that time and what their position was.
|
| Dickerson |
Well, we looked at labor organizations that had high numbers of women members and reached out to them to get involved. We were pretty successful in doing that. Teachers, nurses, social workers—those sorts of organizations were very supportive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
When you brought in some of these groups, was it primarily to help with fundraising, or to bring in funds? Or did they also do other kinds of lobbying within their own organizations or their own industries?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. I don’t recall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
From at least what I’ve read, labor, to a degree, prevented the ERA from getting passed in Congress much earlier because they were so opposed to the notion of protective legislation—the need to have protective labor rules of various sorts for women. Then all of a sudden they began to do an about-face and change their perspective.
|
| Dickerson |
Yes, and the labor organizations that I’m familiar with have within them some groups of women’s organizations that support strong women’s rights. So I think by the time that I was active in the state ERA Coalition, we weren’t getting any push back from our own state labor organizations. We were getting quite a bit of support from some individual unions that were related to what were seen as occupations that were heavily dominated by women.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Generally speaking, did some of these people get involved in leadership roles?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. I mentioned Erin King. She was with the Washington State Nurses Association, and she was co-coordinator with me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I’m interested, too, in the political aspects of the campaign. In terms of the coalition, was there a part of it that dealt with the legislature, for example, assessing their stance, trying to get them involved, or whatever?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, we had different committees. We had fundraising, newsletter, outreach, publicity, research and a speakers’ bureau, which was connected with lots of outreach. We encouraged all of the members of the coalition to be involved in at least one of those committees. We didn’t want people who would just come to the meetings monthly and that was it. We wanted people who would really be activists. We did not have a committee dedicated to looking at what’s happening with the legislature. But believe me, at that first whiff of any efforts to rescind the ERA, we would have been all over it because we were well connected with what was happening in Olympia.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Were there some indications or talk of rescinding in Washington State?
|
| Dickerson |
There were people who were on the political right who wanted to rescind the ERA and talked openly about that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
But did they get any kind of momentum?
|
| Dickerson |
They did not get traction in the legislature on that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So part of your major mission was to just make sure that that didn’t happen?
|
| Dickerson |
Right. Part of the mission was to make sure that didn’t happen. Then the other parts were, again, to help with the national effort to ratify and to make people aware of their rights.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In terms of the idea of making people aware of their rights, did you find that there were a lot of people—a lot of women—who really didn’t know or understand their particular rights and responsibilities as a result of the ERA?
|
|
I think it was, with anything like this, an opportunity to educate a lot of people because it was a change. I think particularly of interest were the rights in the workplace and awareness that women were earning 59 cents for every dollar a man earned. So there was a lot of discussion about pay equity and things of that nature.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Generally speaking, did most women not realize that there was such a disparity in terms of pay?
|
| Dickerson |
I think that’s right. I think it was a surprise to them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
That’s amazing. Were there some kinds of surveys done of various industries, say, in Washington State, which showed what the relative disparities were at that time?
|
| Dickerson |
I was just familiar with the national survey, so I don’t know. My guess is that there may have been.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
But 59 cents out of every dollar is pretty low.
|
| Dickerson |
Yes, it’s pretty low.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Who were the major opponents that you had to contend with in terms of your efforts in the ERA Coalition?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, I remember people like Phyllis Schlafly and the Eagle Forum, politically conservative groups who felt threatened by equal rights for women. Interestingly enough, some of these groups were led by women. So that was one group, one section of the opposition. Another part of the opposition came from religious conservative organizations that again felt threatened by equal rights for women.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Were there any particular organizations or groups in Washington State who stood out, or who were more vocal than others? I know there were some earlier on who were against the state ERA, but later on, did they continue to be actively opposed?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, there was some active opposition, but it was often underground. For example, there was a smear tactic used. I’ll use that word, smear tactic, in that we were told by the local newspapers and press that they were getting letters, unsigned, that said that the people who headed up the ERA Coalition were all a bunch of lesbians. [laughs] Things like that. I don’t remember any person who stands out as a leader of the opposition in Washington State. People would come in from national organizations and would come and speak against the ERA. I don’t remember any prominent local individuals who would do that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
You mentioned some of the smear tactics. Aside from the ERA itself, or maybe as part of the whole movement, there were other underlying issues, whether it was abortion or gay rights or others. How did they fit in with the Washington ERA Coalition? Were they a part of it? Were they a part of your goal? Or were they separate issues? What were the dynamics?
|
| Dickerson |
They were separate issues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
They were separate issues?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. The opposition claimed that the ERA would mean that women across the country could get abortions. The opposition, of course, made all kinds of claims. But I would say we were pretty narrowly focused on equal rights for women. That’s not to say that there weren’t women in there who were also interested in other things like choice or rights for women who were lesbian or gay, or individuals who were gay. There were people who were interested in those issues, but they dealt with them in a separate arena.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So did some of those other issues really muddy the water, so to speak? Or is that not really a fair characterization?
|
| Dickerson |
The opposition tried to muddy the water with the other issues, but I don’t think they were very successful because we had good rebuttals for what they were saying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In terms of that notion of rebuttal, did the coalition have a broad representation? You mentioned that, for example, one of the co-chairs had come from the state nursing organization. Did you also have people from, say, the legal field or the judicial field?
|
| Dickerson |
We did. We had lawyers who were associated with our organization that we could turn to for legal advice. We had a lot of professionals who were part of the organization, and we could draw upon their expertise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
What about the press? Did you find them relatively helpful or sympathetic or at least willing to cover events? What role do you think the press played?
|
| Dickerson |
Hmm. [laughter ] I just am trying to remember. I do remember that we got some good coverage on our rallies. I can’t say that I have a strong recollection of other things besides that. I think we got good editorial support.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
You had mentioned in your early career that you had wanted to be a journalist in Seattle and that it was difficult for women. So I was curious whether it had become a little bit more open-minded over the years.
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. That goal receded into the background.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
But there was a series of articles written by Susan Paynter at the PI–
|
| Dickerson |
Oh, yes! Susan was great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
She did cover a lot of various issues related to the women’s movement.
|
| Dickerson |
Right. Right. I do remember Susan covering the ERA and women’s issues, and she just did a fabulous job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Yes, she really seemed to have discussed a lot of the issues and done a really solid job of explaining them.
Personally, you went from being involved in the ERA Coalition to being the co-chair. Can you tell me a little bit about how that transition happened and what your change in role was as co-chair?
|
| Dickerson |
No. [laughter] You know, again, the details are fuzzy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
You were probably a good worker who rose to the top.
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. I don’t remember even if I sought the position of co-coordinator. I probably did. I liked the fact that it was a joint leadership position. That was the model that we’d chosen so that the responsibility wasn’t on the shoulders of just one person, because there was a lot of work connected with the organization. That’s what I recall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Your job before was outreach.
|
| Dickerson |
Right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Would you have maintained that role primarily as the co-coordinator? Or did it then broaden to a lot of other areas?
|
| Dickerson |
The co-coordinator was responsible for chairing the meetings and making sure that the subcommittees were doing their work. And sometimes, also, doing public speaking—speaking on behalf of an organization to the press and that sort of thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Was it primarily a Western Washington movement? Or were you able to bring in the eastern part of the state?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes, it was, truthfully, primarily Western Washington. There were some people involved in the ERA movement in Spokane, but our coalition was pretty much Western Washington.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
In terms of trying to bring Eastern Washington people in, was it just distance?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes, it was distance. It was hard to have meetings on a monthly basis and go back and forth between Spokane, or Eastern Washington and Western Washington.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
When you took on this role, I’m imagining that it took a major amount of time and effort. Tell me about its impact on your own work life and also family life. During this period of time, tell me a little bit more, if it’s all right, about your family and about how either they were involved or were affected by some of this ERA work.
|
| Dickerson |
Well, my husband Bob was very supportive of my involvement in the ERA Coalition, and we held some of the meetings at our house, so that was great. He didn’t begrudge me the time. [laughter] I appreciated that very much. And he was active when we would do some rallies and things like that, so that was quite helpful. We didn’t have any children, so I had a lot of freedom to do what I wanted to do there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Tell me about what eventually happened to the organization. You mentioned you were involved for about how long?
|
| Dickerson |
I was involved for a few years, and then I moved on. There were other things, I recall, that I got involved in. I would not be the best person to talk to you about the waning years of the coalition. I took a very time-consuming, full-time job as the director of an organization for children, youth and families. I didn’t have the time to give to the ERA Coalition then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
I just wondered if the nature of how ERA was progressing had influenced the coalition at all, or whether the coalition changed because of any of the national issues about ratification.
|
| Dickerson |
I’m sure it did. But again, I was not involved at that time when it looked like ratification was not going to work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Looking back at the effort from your vantage point today, tell me a little bit about how being part of the ERA Coalition affected you. |
| Dickerson |
Well, I got to work with some really wonderful women who were very strong, and who were great role models for me. I got to experience using what I learned in graduate school around community organizing. That was great. It was somewhat self- empowering because it was the first time I’d taken on anything close to a leadership position. I felt comfortable doing that. So it affected me in those days, and it helped me probably integrate more deeply the lessons of women’s rights.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Did you find in personal job situations after that that the ERA had an effect? Or did you find yourself in situations where, because you knew what your rights were, that you could either better or make known your position?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, so often I was the boss in the job situation, so that didn’t play that much of a role for me personally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Eventually you were involved in a lot of social services positions. From that vantage point, did you see an impact on women and families that you were involved with and how the ERA might have affected them?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes, I think that I did. That ERA culture became part of the culture of Washington and how we look at women. Expectations, I think, changed around careers and the work life around rights for healthcare. Sometimes they haven’t changed as much as we would like. We’re still working for things like expanded family leave, paid family leave. We have passed family leave in Washington State. In fact, I was the prime sponsor of that in the House. But it’s right now for the birth of a child, time for bonding afterwards, or the adoption of a child. There are areas where we still need to make progress.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Do you think we still need to pass a national ERA?
|
| Dickerson |
Yes. I think so because it guarantees such a wide range of rights. Many of those rights women have now; some of them they don’t have across the states. It puts those rights in the Constitution, where it will be very, very difficult to take them away. Our country has been lurching towards the right lately, and unless our rights are in the Constitution, they are at risk. This goes for men as well as women.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Over time, you eventually got into the political arena. Can you tell me a little bit about that, and why you decided to go into politics? Do you mind?
|
| Dickerson |
No, I don’t mind at all. I was an advocate for children and families for a number of years because of my work and felt that I could make some movement on behalf of them on an individual basis, to help improve their lives. But when it came to changing the system, I felt that I would need to go to Olympia to do that. So I really wanted to make things better on a much larger scale for children and families and chose to run for office. I ran the first time and lost. I ran two years later and won, and that’s almost fifteen years ago. I look back on that time with no regrets whatsoever, because I have been able to do a number of things for children and families and women. I’ve also looked at women’s issues, things like domestic violence, and worked in that arena. Also family leave is very much an issue for women as well as men. I have done a whole lot of things that I feel great about at this point.
For me, being in the legislature is quite a joyful experience, for the most part, because I am able to make changes, and they, once in a while, can be significant changes to help children and families. Also, I’ve branched out and working on environmental issues. I feel very strongly about them. So it’s just a joy to be able to take some ideas and work with stakeholder groups, refine legislation and eventually see it pass, and then have it implemented.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Did the experience with the Washington ERA Coalition help to bring you to that point in one way or another?
|
| Dickerson |
I think that it probably helped me understand that I had some leadership potential, and I could work with people and persuade them around ideas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Did you ever experience different treatment as a woman in the legislature?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, our legislature, unlike most of the other ones, has a lot of women in it. They’ve chaired very key committees, and they’ve been in leadership positions. I have not felt that I’ve been treated differently as a woman.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
It’s interesting because I had a chance to talk to Lois North, who was the main sponsor in the House for HJR61. At that point, I believe, in the House she was one of maybe four women.
|
| Dickerson |
Right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
So she felt at that point in time, women were definitely treated very differently.
|
| Dickerson |
I’m sure that was true. I come from a district where all three of us are women: the senator and the two representatives are women. My seatmate is Helen Sommers, who chaired the Appropriations Committee.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
She was a very early leader of NOW, wasn’t she?
|
| Dickerson |
She was. Absolutely. She is, of course, very good on women’s issues. The Senate right now is headed up by a woman. In the House, the majority leader is a woman. We have a lot of women in strong leadership positions. As a result, I think we do tend to take up the broader range of issues, including things like childcare issues and domestic violence and more of an emphasis on education. I think having that mix, the male/female mix, is really great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Are there any areas that you think that Washington State needs to improve for women to have full equal rights?
|
| Dickerson |
Well, I believe, for example, that we need to continue to do more work on family leave. We need to work on the issue of wage disparity. There still is a wage disparity in Washington State. It may not be as great as in some other states, but it’s certainly there. That, by the way, is also a national issue. I think we should take a look at how we track girls in high school into pathways that lead them into female-dominated careers and see what we can do about that. Those are just some examples.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Boswell |
Well, thank you very much.
|
| Dickerson |
My pleasure.
|
|
|
|
|
[End Interview.]
|